E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW – ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST WITH SALLY SARA
WEDNESDAY, 20 AUGUST 2025
SUBJECTS: COMMENTS OF ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER ON AUSTRALIAN RECOGNITION OF PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD, VISA CANCELLATION POLICY, AUSTRALIA-ISRAEL RELATIONSHIP.
SALLY SARA: Sally Sara with you on Breakfast. Well, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has denounced Anthony Albanese as a weak politician who has abandoned Australian Jews and betrayed Israel. It follows Israel’s decision earlier this week to revoke visas for Australia’s representatives for – to the Palestinian Authority after Australia’s decision to recognise a Palestinian state and to cancel visas for Israeli figures.
Tony Burke is the Minister for Home Affairs and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.
TONY BURKE: Hi, Sally.
SALLY SARA: What’s the government’s response to these comments, these latest comments, from the Israeli Prime Minister?
TONY BURKE: Look, this is a lashing out where it’s happened to a number of countries that have come forward saying that they’ll be recognising a Palestinian state. There’s been a lashing out against the UK, against France, against Canada, against Norway, against Ireland, against Spain.
But on the issue of the – that you go to particularly there about strength versus weakness, strength is not measured by how many people you can blow up or how many children you can leave hungry. Strength is much better measured by exactly what Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has done, which is when there’s a decision that we know Israel won’t like, he goes straight to Benjamin Netanyahu, he has the conversation, he says exactly what we’re intending to do and has the chance for the objections to be made person to person. And then having heard them, makes the public announcement and does what needs to be done, which is to say to – without in any way compromising the longstanding view that every hostage needs to be released, without compromising the view that Hamas is a terrorist organisation which must play no role in a future Palestinian state, but to say to the Palestinian people – who at the moment must be feeling so invisible to the world – to say you are not invisible, we see you, we will recognise you and that we will take the action that Australia has always believed needed to be taken, which is that we have two states – an Israeli state and a Palestinian state – both secure, both recognised, both safe.
SALLY SARA: Minister, Sky News has this morning published a letter from Benjamin Netanyahu to Anthony Albanese which accuses Mr Albanese of appeasement and pouring fuel on antisemitism. Have you seen the letter, and what do you know about it?
TONY BURKE: No. No, I haven’t. So – but part of the reference to antisemitism can I say that has been made earlier went to visa cancellations that are within my responsibility. So, I can certainly respond to that part if you want me to.
SALLY SARA: With this letter, you’re saying that there’s been a lashing out against other countries. To the government’s knowledge, have similar letters been sent to other leaders?
TONY BURKE: Well, I just told you I wasn’t aware of the one that’s been sent to us, so I’m not in a position to be able to answer that.
SALLY SARA: You’re not aware of it, or you haven’t actually seen the letter?
TONY BURKE: No, no, the – I’m not aware of the letter. I’m aware of what was put out publicly on social media. I got up early this morning. I’ve driven myself in. I’ve been listening to your program. I haven’t heard reference to the letter.
SALLY SARA: Has the Prime Minister sent any reply, to your knowledge?
TONY BURKE: Well, the response that was immediately made – the response that was immediately made – to what was said publicly was made by the Foreign Minister Penny Wong, where she made clear not only our rejection of what was being put out publicly by Prime Minister Netanyahu, but also to make clear that it is not in Israel’s interests for them to be isolating themselves. And what we are seeing with some of the actions they’re taking is a form of continued isolation of Israel from the world, and that is not in their interests either.
SALLY SARA: What do you think about these specific terms that have been used in this letter of appeasement and pouring fuel on antisemitism?
TONY BURKE: Well, can I go specifically to the references to that, which have been referring to visa cancellations that have been within my role. The two visa cancellations they’ve taken particular objection to were one to a former Israeli minister and one to a current member of the parliament within the Knesset. If I just give two simple examples of what each of them have said. One has described Israeli children as the enemy – Israeli children as the enemy. And the other –
SALLY SARA: Are you talking about Palestinian children or –
TONY BURKE: Sorry, I apologise. I apologise, you’re right. One of them has described Palestinian children as the enemy. And the other has described Palestinian children as little snakes – as little snakes. Now, if anyone wanted to come on a public speaking tour and they had those views publicly expressed about Israeli children, I would block the visa. And I am going to not have a lower bar for the protection of views that are bigoted views against the Palestinian people.
I take the role very seriously in Australia that we have a power, or I have a power and my delegates in the department have a power under the Migration Act to block people from coming here if we think they were incite discord. Now –
SALLY SARA: The Shadow Foreign Minister Michaelia Cash says your visa decision is absurd and reckless – and it’s reckless to recognise a Palestinian state. What do you think of that criticism from the shadow foreign minister?
TONY BURKE: Well, the recognition of a Palestinian state, you know, you can only go through the reasons that have been given by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister and, in particular, the concept that if we don’t recognise now, the plans that some people have will mean there may not be a Palestine to recognise in the future. And if you believe in there being a two-state solution, then the time to recognise is now.
Secondly, though, the claims from Michaelia Cash rejecting the visa decisions in the quote you just gave, you know, when I gave the rejection of Candace Owens, she never objected to that. When I gave the rejection of Kanye West, she never objected to that. It seems that the Coalition only believe I should be rejecting people if they will cause harm to the Jewish community and not if they will cause harm to the Palestinian or Muslim community. I have a strong view that no matter who you are in Australia you have a right to feel safe and to be safe. And I also have a view that words can be bullets.
Now, you know, I can’t stop what comes into people through news shows. I can’t stop what reaches people over the internet. But I do have a personal responsibility as to whether or not Australia formally holds out a welcome mat to people with extreme views and says come and express them here. And there are two things – two things – that Australians do not want: first, they don’t want the killing to continue on the other side of the world, and that’s why we call for ceasefire and that’s why we make the decisions that we’ve made. And secondly, they do not want the conflict and the hatreds brought here. And I make no apology for being consistent as to whether someone has a dehumanising view of Jewish children or Palestinian children, I will make the same decision and say, “If you want to come here on a public speaking tour, choose a different country. We don’t need to import that bigotry.”
SALLY SARA: Minister, on the issue of right-wing Israeli politician Simcha Rotman’s comments calling for the destruction of Hamas, was that one of the grounds for your decision to cancel that visa?
TONY BURKE: I’m glad you’ve asked that, because there’s some mischievous commentary in some of the papers today. There is a section that refers to the reasons that my delegate in the department used to make the decision. Some of those – some of what then follows is simply descriptive – his view on Hamas, the fact that he’s a politician, his professional qualifications. Some of it’s just straight, the party that he’s in, some of it is just straight descriptive. Other parts of it go to the most extreme views that he has. And it’s the example of the most extreme views, some of which I’ve already referred to in this interview that –
SALLY SARA: But is calling for the destruction of Hamas, is that one of the grounds?
TONY BURKE: Of course not. Of course not. And just look at the number of people – you know, the number of people – with that exact view who we give visas to in Australia. Like, obviously it’s not. And that’s why I’m glad you’ve put it to me because it’s a ridiculous claim that’s in the papers today where it’s a misreading of the decision. And some of what follows in that paragraph is simply descriptive of his views and consistent with many people who we let into the country, and some of it is quite extreme views which are not consistently held across the country.
SALLY SARA: Let’s have a look at the relationship between Australia and Israel. The Leader of the Opposition Sussan Ley says the relationship, the bilateral relationship, is now in tatters and this latest development is “a troubling diplomatic incident”. Do you believe we’re now at the lowest point in relations between Australia and Israel for some time?
TONY BURKE: There are many layers of cooperation that happen with Israel, including in my own role as Minister for Home Affairs. There are many layers of cooperation that occur that keep people safe that is valuable, that continues, and I would be stunned because – if it ever slowed down because it wouldn’t be in the interests of –
SALLY SARA: But I bring you back to the question: is it at a low point now? Is that fair to say?
TONY BURKE: Look, there’s clearly some very serious differences between the two countries. Clearly. You know, I – and most of this interview has been dedicated to that. What is happening in Gaza is beyond belief, and, you know, you – no-one should ever sacrifice their principles of humanity when they give way to their rage. And I understand the rage of Israel following October 7. October 7 was disgraceful, disgusting, there are breaches of humanitarian law everywhere that happened from Hamas that day. None of that is the fault of starving Palestinian children.
SALLY SARA: Would there be any assurances that would convince you to reconsider or reinstate the visa for the Israeli right-wing politician Simcha Rotman?
TONY BURKE: Not for a public speaking tour, that I can imagine. You know, these decisions, once made, if he asked for it to be reviewed, then one of the assistant ministers would review it. I’d be surprised if he did. Ayelet Shaked when her visa was first rejected by the department asked for it to be reviewed. I did it personally. I came down with the same decision. The reasons, I added a few to what the department had, but, you know, the – there is a legal right that anyone has if they want to ask for a reconsideration. Obviously because I’ve done this interview this morning I’ve made my views very clear, so I wouldn’t be the decision-maker; I’d get an assistant minister to do it. But the reasons for this visa cancellation I can say are absolutely consistent with what we have done when we have rejected visas for speaking tours from people who might have the exact opposite view in terms of the conflict but an identical view in terms of their willingness to dehumanise other people.
SALLY SARA: When we look at social cohesion here in Australia, in July 2024 Peter Khalil was appointed as Special Envoy for Social Cohesion. Is it correct that that role has been scrapped? Do you intend to bring it back? And we’re also seeing reports that not one report was filed by Peter Khalil during that time.
TONY BURKE: Look, I worked very closely with Peter Khalil during that time, and whether there’s written reports or not, don’t change the fact that you have the regular meetings and you work together on the sharing of the load. The thing that happened with the restructure was Multicultural Affairs was elevated in Anne Aly to becoming a second member of cabinet within the Home Affairs portfolio. So instead of having an envoy, we have the multicultural affairs, and that part – you know, the social cohesion part work is largely shared between myself and Anne. But we’ve got an additional cabinet minister there. And Anne’s doing a phenomenal job.
SALLY SARA: Minister, we’ll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.