TRANSCRIPT - ABC NEWS BREAKFAST WITH EMMA REBELLATO - WEDNESDAY, 24 DECEMBER 2025

TELEVISION INTERVIEW

ABC NEWS BREAKFAST WITH EMMA REBELLATO

WEDNESDAY, 24 DECEMBER 2025

SUBJECTS: National Hate Crimes Database, Commonwealth Royal Commission

EMMA REBELLATO: But first let's turn to the Federal political fallout. The Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke, joins us now from Sydney. Minister, thanks for joining us this morning.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS, TONY BURKE: Good morning, and just before we start, if I can just offer my sympathies with Katie Allen, she was deeply respected across the board in the Parliament. I know she's the other side of politics, and a lot of the Opposition will be feeling this very deeply today, but just to her family and everybody, I just want to extend those sympathies.

REBELLATO: Thank you very much for that, Minister. Let's turn to the first phase. You've just announced that the first phase of the National Hate Crimes and Incidents Database is being launched. Can you explain what that is, how it works?

BURKE: It's an extra tool that will we have to be able to measure how effective our hate laws are, and to be able to get a sense across the country of what's happening with convictions of hate crimes.

Now every state has a slightly different regime in place, so effectively we've had to work out how do you summarise different sorts of offences, codify them, and then have basically a national dashboard which gives a sense of when we're giving convictions.

I want over time to be able to go deeper into this, to be able to start getting better categories than we currently have and also being able to potentially look at not waiting for convictions but getting a sense of charges and reports as well. So that's why this is the first phase.

REBELLATO: Okay. But National Cabinet agreed to this about a year ago. Given what we've seen, the rise in antisemitic attacks, the Bondi attacks just over a week ago, has this come a bit too late; should you have moved faster?

BURKE: I wish this had been in place 20 years ago. It's a helpful tool. I've been working with the Institute of Criminology since I took this on following the election to actually bring the date forward. This is happening much faster than it was going to, and effectively my view was let's not wait for the perfect to be the enemy of the good; let's get a phase of this up and running as soon as we can. That's a decision that was taken well before the atrocious and horrific terrorist attack at Bondi.

REBELLATO: New South Wales Parliament, as we know, passed those gun reforms and a raft of other changes just a few hours ago, in the early hours of this morning. Now you've revealed that the government has started drafting gun legislation. Can you tell us what that will look like?

BURKE: Gun legislation is principally with the states, but there are elements of it that will come to the Commonwealth. So effectively what we're working through is what we need to do at a customs level to be able to stop things at the border.

When the last big wave of gun control happened there was no such thing as a 3D printed weapon, so we need to be able to bring our customs laws up‑to‑date so we can intercept at the border.

We also need to work out how we can better share information. At the moment there's a system where the states have a limited sharing of actual convictions and things like that, and a limited criminal intelligence. We're working through how much information we have, where someone has not yet committed an offence, but there is enough of a warning light there that it should give pause to any state authority in issuing a gun licence and wanting to be able to find a way of making that information available.

REBELLATO: Minister Burke, regarding the Bondi terror attack, the calls for a Royal Commission are growing; they are not slowing down, they are growing, from so many sectors, from within your party, from outside your party.

The Shadow Attorney‑General, Andrew Wallace says he can't understand why the Prime Minister won't do it, and he says it suggests the PM is afraid of the findings. Is your Government afraid of these findings?

BURKE: We have an absolute sense of urgency in making sure we get the best information as quickly as we can. People know with Royal Commissions, every Royal Commission asks for extensions of time, Royal Commissions take years traditionally. Now, there will be a New South Wales Royal Commission, and we'll cooperate with that.

But what we need is three things. We need, first of all, anything we can do immediately to do, and that's what we've already just spoken about in terms of legislation that's being drafted now.

Secondly, we need to have independent advice to look at what's happened and to work through where we can urgently improve our national security settings. That's what the Dennis Richardson Review will do, and that is appropriately chaired not by a retired judge but chaired by a national security expert who is respected across the board in Dennis Richardson.

Thirdly, there will be a Royal Commission, that will be dealt with by New South Wales, and we will cooperate with that.

REBELLATO: But why can't you do both? Why can't the Commonwealth conduct a Royal Commission especially when you've got so many people across the board saying this is the right thing to do?

BURKE: There's going to be one, New South Wales have already announced it, and we will cooperate with that. But please, don't underestimate the sense of urgency that is here. Could you imagine if there was information that we could get in April and we waited for a process that took years?

I understand why people call for it. I understand that people say, "Well, look, this is the biggest thing you could possibly do, then why not that?" But whenever there has been an immediate priority of national safety, whether it was after Port Arthur, whether it was after Lindt or now after Bondi, the response from the government of the day has been the same, which is a Royal Commission is not the best process at a Federal level. We need to act urgently in the interests of national safety.

REBELLATO: Minister, I want to ask you about the tightening of hate laws as well. There are reports that a British national is facing deportation, has had his visa cancelled because he's been charged with having Nazi symbols. Is that what is happening; can you confirm that?

BURKE: Yeah, I can confirm those reports, that's right. I said some time ago that as far as freedom of speech was concerned, I had no time for hatred when it came to cancelling visas.

If you come to Australia on a visa, you are here as a guest. Almost everyone on a visa is a good guest and a welcome guest in our country. But if someone comes here for the purposes of hate, they can leave. And that's what we're doing. There will also be legislation to increase my powers to make cancellations of exactly this nature.

REBELLATO: Do you expect more to happen?

BURKE: Yes, I do. At the moment the test that my Department have to work through is not simply whether someone has engaged in hate speech and vilification of people, we also have to establish, well what's the impact on that community and to what extent will that incite discord across Australia. 

My view is an incitement of hate should be enough. That of itself says, "You are not a welcome guest in this country", and we should be able to cancel visas on that basis alone.

REBELLATO: Minister, it looks like you and your colleagues will now face different family travel rules, including economy flights only, scrapping an allowance for three annual Australia‑wide return trips. Is this an admission that politicians and your government has not met public expectation, that you've taken things too far?

BURKE: It says that we've had to bring it up‑to‑date with community expectations. The rules that are currently in place were rules that had been set by the previous government. Since that time both sides of politics agreed there should be an independent authority, called IPEA, that deals with these issues.

The Prime Minister and the government asked them to give us advice, they've given us advice, we've backed it, passed it on to the Remuneration Tribunal, with government support and then the Rem Tribunal's is the organisation that's in charge of making these decisions.

I don't think we should be in a situation where politicians determine what politicians get. I think having independent authorities is the right approach, and the community made clear, the rules that were there were not in touch with community standards, and this brings it into line with that.

REBELLATO: Minister Tony Burke, thanks for your time this morning, and wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas.

BURKE: Yes, same for you and all your viewers.

REBELLATO: Thank you.

ENDS