TRANSCRIPT - ABC RN BREAKFAST WITH SALLY SARA - WEDNESDAY, 21 JANUARY 2026

RADIO INTERVIEW

ABC RN BREAKFAST WITH SALLY SARA

WEDNESDAY, 21 JANUARY 2026

SUBJECTS: Parliament passes gun reform and hate speech laws.

SALLY SARA: Tony Burke is the Minister for Home Affairs and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS, TONY BURKE: Good morning, Sally.

SARA: Do you believe that Jewish Australians are now safer that the government’s law reforms have passed Parliament?

BURKE: Yes. Yes, there’s no doubt about that, because part of delivering safety is doing something about bigotry. And so, the laws that have gone through do give us more tools effectively to be able to combat antisemitism. They don’t give us as many tools as the government would have liked, but we have to deal with the Parliament that we have, and there’s no doubt that we now have the strongest protections Australia has ever had.

SARA: What practical impact does this legislation have on particular groups or particular faith leaders who are advocating or promoting violence?

BURKE: On promoting violence, there is serious criminal offences now – so that’s there. The government would have liked to have gone a step further. There is no doubt in terms of statements that people make where the risk of violence is increased by dehumanising language, and we’ve seen that with respect to antisemitism, with see it with respect to other forms of hate speech. If you go right back to the simple national security decision that was made about a year and a half ago when we increased the threat level from possible to probable for terrorist events, when we did that it wasn’t because there was a specific plan happening; it was simply that when the temperature is hotter, when you have increased levels of bigotry and reduced social cohesion, it makes it more likely that violent attacks occur. Horrifically, in that exact situation we ended up seeing one of those in Bondi.

SARA: Yesterday, you expressed disappointment that you had to water down the legislation to win support from the Liberals. You said the original proposals such as the vilification offence would have had a chilling impact on racism. What impact will this bill have on racism now?

BURKE: Effectively, when people specifically call for violence and racism, there are very serious penalties for that. Secondly, for organisations that fall short of calling for violence there is now a way of being able to ban those organisations. Previously, if you called for violence, you’d effectively be able to meet the terrorism threshold. But there are a couple of organisations that the head of ASIO has called out – specifically the Nazis and Hizb ut-Tahrir – as organisations which strategically were skating just below the violence threshold. There is now a pathway for those organisations to be able to consider a cancellation of them even though they don’t meet the terrorist threshold.

That is very significant. It is helpful. But, as I say, the threshold that we originally had was a little bit lower than where it’s landed. Everything that I do ends up being litigated in court. That’s the nature of being Australia’s Minister for Home Affairs. But we will deal with the laws that we have. Certainly, we wanted the threshold lowered, and it has now been lowered.

SARA: National Senator Matt Canavan raised concerns and objections that the definition of “economic, social and psychological harm” is too broad. What is the threshold there? How does someone prove that they’ve had psychological, economic or social harm from the actions or words of others?

BURKE: These are all issues that get taken into account in a thing called the statement of reasons which a Minister ultimately considers when they’re making these decisions. But what’s important to know is before that – and when people say, “Oh, look, this part of it’s too broad,” they forget the first hurdle. The first hurdle is no Minister can ban any organisation unless you’ve first got ASIO giving the recommendation that this should occur. There’s a first step from ASIO, and if they don’t open the door, there is nothing for a Minister to do. I wanted this one very deliberately in the legislation because it’s important that no Minister, whether it’s me or anyone into the future, is able to start using powers like this, for example, to try to make things difficult for political opponents and start playing legal games. You need some really tough structures around this. That’s why no Minister can do a thing in this area unless it starts with the ASIO advice.

SARA: The Prime Minister has indicated that the government won’t be looking to make any more changes or updates to hate speech laws in this term of Parliament. Doesn’t the government have a duty to keep assessing and looking at options rather than leaving it here?

BURKE: Look, Sally I’ve devoted most of my career to trying to get tougher hate speech laws. I spent my time in opposition trying to and successfully stopping the weakening of our hate speech laws when the previous government’s line was, they believed you had a right to be a bigot and they wanted to weaken the laws against racism and antisemitism. So that’s the history.

We have to deal with the Parliament that we have. If we can’t get those criminal hate speech laws through in the wake of the Bondi massacre, then I just don’t see how the situation in the Parliament is about to change. So, I will go through my whole-

SARA: But don’t you keep trying? I mean, we heard the Opposition say initially that it was unsalvageable and yet deals have been met on a number of other issues. Is it worth giving it another shot?

BURKE: If it can’t happen in the wake of the Bondi massacre where everybody was saying – and was right to say – that antisemitism was at the core of that evil terrorist attack, if we’re not getting the political will then, then I genuinely don’t see where we will. Let’s not forget in the lead-up to this the Coalition was calling for tougher hate laws. In the lead-up to this the Coalition was saying why isn’t the government fully implementing immediately Jillian Segal’s report as the Antisemitism Envoy, which called for tougher hate laws. You had everything you could possibly have, including the Liberals giving their word that they supported this, and we still didn’t get there. I’ll go through my whole life in Australia never being subjected to those forms of hate. My heritage is Irish. it won’t happen for me, but it will happen for so many fellow Australians and I wish we had tougher laws that we were able to get through, but we have to deal with the Parliament that we have.

SARA: Are you prepared to make further changes to the law if they’re recommended by Virginia Bell and her Royal Commission?

BURKE: Well, on the Royal Commission, we will see what is reported there. But I would also say if the massacre itself didn’t create the political will, I’m not sure how even a Royal Commission will on hate speech laws. I wish that were not the case. But I’ve just got to give you my honest assessment of where we’re at on that.

SARA: Tony Burke, thank you very much for joining me this morning.

BURKE: Great to be back on the show. See ya.

ENDS