TRANSCRIPT - RADIO INTERVIEW - 4CA CAIRNS WITH MURRAY JONES - THURSDAY 30 JULY 2026
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW
4CA AM CAIRNS, MURRAY JONES
THURSDAY 30 JULY 2026
SUBJECTS: Torres Strait border security, Operation BROADSTAFF, Australian Festival of Chamber Music
MURRAY JONES: Good morning, it's 846 4CA. I've been talking to this man for years, so it's wonderful to actually have him in studio. I think he was a bit surprised, he thought I was a lot better looking. Tony Burke, good morning, how are you?
TONY BURKE: Good, Murray, I reckon we've nearly clocked up 20 years since I first was interviewed by you.
JONES: It's been a long time, but it's a long time since I've seen you in studio, so –
BURKE: That's right.
JONES: At least you haven't aged. Now, look –
BURKE: Neither of us look a day older.
JONES: Home Affairs and Arts, I better give you at least part of your correct title. Great to have you in town, and there's various reasons why you've been in town, we'll touch on those shortly, but most importantly, you've just come back from Cape York Torres Strait with the Australian Federal Police and Border Force to talk about obviously something that's I guess a real issue for us, we often see things turning up in the paper about people smugglers, tobacco coming in is a real issue; border security, particularly on our northern region, I guess a real concern. Tell me about some of the things that you've found out over the last couple of days in those northern areas.
BURKE: Yeah, I mean what we've got here is the most complex border of any part of Australia.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: And look, the number of times I've looked at the map and been told, oh, yeah, this is how close it is, until I actually landed in Saibai, I did not - I did not have a full appreciation of just close we were talking.
JONES: You could swim it basically.
BRKE: Well, you'd be brave to.
JONES: Yeah, but you could, on a good day.
BURKE: In terms of the distance, yeah.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And the boats from the villages, I was watching them come across, and so there are a few things with that. One, I got a real appreciation for how important the people who work for us are who know the villages, who know who's who.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And effectively you can't train that quickly.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: Like there were - I think the moment I learnt the most was probably at a bar on Thursday Island where just by chance I met two men, one Wolfgang and one Peter. Peter started working for Immigration Compliance, as it was back then - no, for Customs, sorry - in the year 2000, Wolfgang, 1996.
JONES: Wow.
BURKE: They both, when they started the job was an hour a day, they're still doing it. They can recognise immediately every villager who's meant to be there and who's not to be. And that sort of expertise, that sort of loyalty as well to Australia is just phenomenal. And so what we need to make sure is that we've got all the systems around to back that partnership, because, you know, there are other parts where you can just get the equipment in place, you get the vessels, anything that's in a particular area, you know it's not meant to be there –
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: -- you can just go and intercept. Whereas here you've got a whole lot that's allowed, a whole lot that's not allowed, and trying to tell one from the other demands this level of expertise. So there's a whole lot that we've already started, and I know you've had Matt Smith talk about the Operation Broadstaff where, you know, we've had good success now on illegal fishing, because effectively we had big gains on illegal fishing out in the north-west, so then they moved to north of the territory, we had big gains there stopping illegal fishing.
JONES: Yep.
BURKE: And now they've come to the Torres Strait.
JONES: Further east, yeah.
BURKE: But you know, in this year alone there's been 23 that we've interdicted, that we've stopped, and on more than half of those we've also destroyed their vessel, and you know, nothing sends - it's one thing when you take their catch and send them off, it's another thing when the vessel itself is destroyed.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And the message that that sends is really powerful.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: But once someone's willing to break the law, you know, they don't stop at fishing.
JONES: Yep, sure.
BURKE: And this is where you need to stop the illegal fishing, because people who are willing to break the law on fishing are usually willing to break the law on drugs, break the law on people smuggling, to break the law on people trafficking. There's a whole - and you mentioned illegal tobacco as well. Once people cross that line, they'll usually go to whoever the highest bidder is, and so I made sure that I was meeting with the leaders in the communities across the Strait, and also went to Bamaga in the Cape, and just making sure I was meeting with leaders to do everything we can to advance that sense of partnership.
JONES: And what about younger ones coming through the system, to actually, you know, glean some of that knowledge that's been gained over, you know, you
mentioned basically 30 years; that's important as well?
BURKE: Oh, absolutely. And this is one of the things I'll be going back to talk to the Border Force people who, you know, the Commissioner who runs it back in
Canberra, to be able to talk to him about what we need to do for recruitment. Because obviously, you know, Wolfgang and Peter, they're not going to be doing that job forever.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: I wish they were, like they're fantastic blokes.
JONES: But that knowledge they've got really needs to be passed on.
BURKE: Oh, completely, completely.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And is only capable of being passed on to locals. You know, these are not jobs where you can get someone from another part of Australia and just set them up –
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: -- for a four-year secondment, they won't get it. And so that strength of the local engagement and partnership is what I'd - and as you say, recruitment for the next generation is exactly the conversation I've got to have when I get back.
JONES: And as you said, that open door, you know, it just opens up, you know, a plethora of things that unfortunately we need to keep out of this country. When it comes to coming and going, interesting to see that even Cairns Airport, I mean it is the seventh most busy airport in the country, but I believe the digital passenger cards are set to be introduced here locally as well.
BURKE: Oh, and how many times have people been on a plane and the card comes, you're at the end of a long flight, you're not feeling your best often, and no
one's got a pen, no one –
JONES: Pens.
BURKE: -- if you're travelling somewhere else, no one knows the - like you never know the street address of the hotel that you're staying at.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: And just that final hassle on landing, it will be gone.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: So it will take about - it will take a bit over a year to roll the whole thing out, but effectively what will happen is for 72 hours before you board your flight coming home, you'll have access to be able to just get it done, and you just do it on your phone, there will be a QR code that will come up on your phone, and when you land you just show it, and you'll be able to go straight through. It will make things so much simpler.
JONES: And also so much more manageable, and an opportunity, if there's something that's amiss, gives, I guess, you know, the authorities an opportunity to
basically look at the application, look at the details, just in case there are things amiss, particularly for foreigners coming into the country.
BURKE: Oh, well, this - it will have two impacts on that. The first is, when people are filling it out they'll realise, "Oh, this is something I'm not allowed to take in", so they won't even pack it in their bag –
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: -- much less, you know, you don't get the declaration problem. But the other thing is, our authorities will know what the answers are on those - you know, it's not a card now –
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: -- but they'll know what the answers are before your flight takes off, and that gives people time to do all the risk assessment and to work out, "Okay, this
person, we need to have a talk to, these other people, we know they can go straight through".
JONES: Excellent. Good to see that this is happening here locally in Cairns. Well, a few things I'm keen to talk about, but I'm keen to just talk a little bit more
about, I guess, the atmosphere that we've got in the country at the moment, and we're seeing the polarisation, the division, that's really marred democracy in the US, and it's something that I was hoping would not come to Australia, but sadly, you know, we're basically being fuelled by misinformation, disinformation, talk about social media feeds that are basically being, you know, fed from Brazil, Indonesia, that are set to undermine our democracy, and sadly, you know, the misinformation, the division, the polarisation, the hatred. From your position, because I know that you cop a fair bit of it as well, how are we going to move forward as Australians, and I guess that Australian spirit of working together for the benefit of the country, and stop the people that are really at the end of the day just trying to rip our country down?
BURKE: One of the challenges with all of this is going to be - because what you talk about, I couldn't agree more, Murray, we are talking about the character of Australia.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: And, you know, we are not a shouting people.
JONES: That's right.
BURKE: That's not what it is to be Australian.
JONES: We work together.
BURKE: Yeah, yeah, we've got an instinct for kindness, we've got an instinct for getting along with each other. One of the things that happens, broadcast media, so you've been in broadcast media for a while now, you're always trying to reach the biggest audience.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: What the social media algorithms are trying to do is reach the strongest reaction, and so effectively online it pushes people to the edges, that's what
happens.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: Whereas programs like this, general media, tries to push people to the centre to be able to have the main conversations –
JONES: That's right.
BURKE: -- that will reach as many people as possible. I think we all need to realise the loudest, angriest voice is not the most representative voice.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: And remember that sense of who we are as Australians, like the miracle of our country has always been that a whole lot of people who couldn't get along in countries overseas, we've come here, we've started a new country together, and we are strong because of that. There's this sort of Australian covenant that the Prime Minister often talks about where he says, you know, you leave your hatreds at the door –
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: -- and everything else we want, and we're going to make good use of it together.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And that sort of covenant's really characterised us. If you look at your phone you'd think we're a different country.
JONES: Sure.
BURKE: So, you know, part of the suggestion is we need to spend more time on the radio, more time talking to each other –
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: -- and you know, you'll see people at a café who've decided to catch up and they're both looking at their phones. We get back to the situation in Australia where we're looking at each other, we're talking to each other, we're getting along, we don't lose our character that way. And I'm optimistic about it, you know, I think we're going through a period now where the volume on the angriest person is being turned up. We need to make sure that doesn't change who we are.
JONES: And it's sad, because, you know, you're seeing really the destruction of so much of that [indistinct]. Hopefully moving forward, we can unify and work together, which is, you know, really the Australian way. Accept difference, there's always going to be difference, but in the middle there there's got to be some common ground.
BURKE: Yeah, well, if you - I always think of it like an orchestra, you know, you never have an orchestra - well, it would be a pretty lousy orchestra if everything was the same instrument.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: You know, you get the mixture, and that gives you the harmony, and you create something incredible together.
JONES: Well, that's a great segue, because you're also being here as the Minister for the Arts for the Australian Festival of Chamber Music. It's been a wonderful success here in town.
BURKE: Oh, and I've been trying to get to this festival for ages. My sister goes, has gone every year except she couldn't make it this year, so I didn't get to see her. But I've always wanted to get to it, they've always tried to get me along, I haven't been able to, and this year I got there, and can I say, Townsville has lost out big time to Cairns.
JONES: We're proud of that.
BURKE: Oh. And talking to the organisers, they have been - they've viewed it as such a success, I don't think they're going back, I reckon Cairns has claimed this festival as a home.
JONES: It's just wonderful, it's been really good.
BURKE: And there's something really nice about chamber music in the sense that, you know, I've spent most of my life in pub rock, but there is something beautiful about chamber music where you can distinguish each instrument.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: You can hear what's going on, it's a really special form of music, and they did a great mixture, you had works from, you know, what I heard when - the one that I went to, there were works from Beethoven, and there was another work that was being performed for the first time in history here in Cairns.
JONES: Yeah.
BURKE: And that mixture gives you so much confidence, and the musicians, wow, they can play.
JONES: And that's the quality, so regardless, even if it's not your typical style, when the musicians are just so accomplished, I think we can all appreciate that for sure.
BURKE: Yeah, I had someone say to me afterwards, "Oh, you play the guitar", and I thought, after seeing that guitarist, no.
JONES: Well, great to have you in studio. Thank you so much for dropping in and spending some time in Cairns. You know, we've covered some really important
things, so Federal Minister for Home Affairs and the Arts, Tony Burke, thank you so much for your time. Enjoy some beautiful sunshine in Cairns.
BURKE: Will do. Can't wait to be back, Murray.
ENDS