TRANSCRIPT - RADIO INTERVIEW - ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST - MONDAY 13 JULY 2026

 E&OE TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW

ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST WITH SALLY SARA

MONDAY, 13 JULY 2026

SUBJECTS: Antisemitism on university campuses, Australian citizens with links to ISIS, Digital passenger cards

 SALLY SARA: Well, turning to federal politics now, and universities will be required to adopt formal definitions of antisemitism, Islamophobia and racism against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples under a new standard starting from today. It comes as the Royal Commission into antisemitism and Social Cohesion turns its focus to the university sector this week, where it will hear counts of antisemitism on campus from Jewish students. Tony Burke is the Minister for Home Affairs as well as the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Cyber Security, and the Arts, and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to breakfast.

MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS, TONY BURKE: Hey Sally, good to be back.

SARA: Why hasn't the government directed universities to use a specific definition of antisemitism?

BURKE: Oh, look, I think the important thing is from today, the new announcement says that these are issues they have to confront and have to deal with. The starting point. I don't think we should lose sight of how big the step forward is today, which is that time at uni should be a place where people feel completely safe. And clearly, for the last two years, for a whole lot of students, that just hasn't been true at all. And for the different forms of bigotry that you've highlighted, and for all racism, it's important that universities are given clear standards and metrics that they're being measured against and that they're measuring themselves against to make sure that the experience of a student in Australia, no matter who you love, no matter where you're from, no matter what you believe, is an experience of safety.

SARA: If the university sector needs clear standards, as you're saying, why hasn't the government directed universities to use some kind of specific definition?

BURKE: Well, the definitions that they'll come up with in those… I think the principles will be very clear as to what happens here. Like for, you know, in terms of antisemitism, you want Jewish students to feel safe, like, that's what you want to make sure happens. And clearly that has not been happening.

SARA: The Antisemitism Envoy, Jillian Segel, who was appointed by you, has advocated for the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance working definition of Antisemitism. The PM adopted that definition last year. It cites examples, including drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. Does the government expect that universities should prohibit those sorts of comparisons being made by students protesting on campus?

BURKE: Oh, certainly, I think to ever use someone's trauma and the horrors of a group's past and to use that as a weapon against them, I think, is always unacceptable. Always. And certainly, I've - the comment’s sometimes made.. ‘Oh, the IHRA doesn't allow you to criticise Israel.’ we've adopted the IHRA definition. I've used it in visa cancellations myself. It's a - you know - to test where there might be an allegation that there's antisemitism involved. You can, within that definition, criticise Israel.

SARA: Appearing before the Royal Commission last week, Jillian Segel said there was, quote, a common and pervasive perception in the Australian Jewish community that coverage by public broadcasters of the conflict in Gaza, quote, disproportionately gave voice to anti-Israel perspectives. The broadcasters have rejected that suggestion. What do you think?

BURKE: Oh, look, I haven't… I'll be up front... I haven't gone through pressure testing, nor do I think politicians are particularly well placed in pressure testing what they think of media coverage back and forth. We have envoys to be able to fearlessly put forward their view. They are deliberately independent decisions. I'm not critical of Jillian Segel for using that independence in the way that she has. Nor am I critical of the ABC for testing itself against its charter.

SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke. Last month, the Government revealed an Australian woman who'd been living in Syria and had links to Islamic State had been issued a permit to return to Australia after being subject to a temporary exclusion order. Does the Government have any update on that woman? Has she returned?

BURKE: No, no, she hasn't. And, you know, as I've said a number of times, I wouldn't be surprised if some people choose not to return. I was surprised when all the remainder of the cohort returned, but I think they weren't quite expecting that some of them would be met at the airport by the Australian Federal Police because we already had the evidentiary burden there to be able to press charges. Some people, some further people, were arrested a couple of weeks later and charged. I suspect that the particular person who was subject to the temporary exclusion order would be very mindful of what she has done and would be very mindful of consequences if she were to return to Australia. I don't know if she will. My understanding at the moment is, well, the.. It's not for public, but we do know where she is and.

SARA: Is she in prison at the moment?

BURKE: We do know where she is. The information I get from the agencies, you'll appreciate, there's a lot that I get in Home Affairs that’s not for interviews.

SARA: The ABC has reported detailed allegations that Hodan Abby abused a Yazidi girl who was enslaved in her home for several months in 2016. Can you confirm whether you're aware of those allegations, including that Hoden Abby acted as a Sharia judge or enforcer of Sharia law?

BURKE: There is a reason why one person stood out from others in terms of the temporary exclusion order information. The fact that you have information and intelligence. The Federal Police then need to build that up to evidence before they're ready for an arrest. But certainly, everybody who went to join ISIS made an unconscionable decision, made a horrific decision. And while they were there, there were a range of unacceptable behaviours across the cohort. Not everyone in the cohort was identical. They all made the first decision, which was horrific, but they, you know, behave differently when they're over there. And some people are at levels that it just beggars belief how humans could treat other humans that way.

SARA: Just finally, on a separate issue, Minister, you're announcing today that you're phasing out paper passenger cards for travellers coming through the border, replacing them with a digital version. How confident is the government that this system will be an improvement?

BURKE: Yeah, so this is the happy end of the interview, this one. We've been trialling this now for a couple of years, and we started just the Qantas flights coming from New Zealand. We've been expanding it out to different destinations across the cast Coast. We've now seen a system that works, and effectively, lots of your listeners will remember arriving as the plane starts - about to descend and someone comes out with cards. No one can find a pencil. At the end of a long flight, people might not be at their best, and nobody knows the address - the full address off the top of their head, of the hotel they're staying at or remembers the phone number of their next of kin. So, it means now a whole lot of this you do before you even board the flight, do it on the app, or there'll be a web interface as well. And it means it makes it easier for the passengers. And when you land, it makes it much quicker to get through, because I want people as soon as they land - we're the best place on Earth, I want them out here enjoying it. And if they're Australians coming home, I want them getting home and getting over a bit of jet lag as soon as they can. And the final layer of it, of course, is from a Home Affairs perspective, there are times when we need to go back to those cards for information. And at the moment, you're going through warehouses trying to find the right box that's got the right set of cards to be able to then decipher someone's handwriting. This will give us a much more efficient way of being able to run the border.

SARA: Tony Burke, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

BURKE: Really good to be back on the program. Thank you.

ENDS